Posted by & filed under Continuing Conversations.

The context for this conversation is a previous post  –Yesterday (July 30th) you asked what I’m working on now

Why a public conversation instead of one-to-one on Skype.

The conversation is happening here – publicly – because of my interest in the benefits of sharing information openly, and because of time constraints.

In this conversation we have previously mentioned Andrius Kulikauskas.  Andrius has influenced me in many ways, especially regarding sharing information openly and issues around Intellectual Property. Other people have also influenced me on those topics  – especially people involved with Creative Commons, the Peer-to-Peer Foundation, and the School of Commoning.

This is not the time for a deep discussion of the issues of working opening. Suffice to say that I have no wish to be an information bottleneck. I prefer, instead, to open up effective communication channels. I’m exploring ways to do that. You can see that interest at work in my activities in:

The need for effective communication also informs my obsession with the development disconnect – see It’s time to end this development disconnect and Tim Unwin’s keynote speech at Dadamac’s January 2015 event.

I delight in my many, diverse contacts who “appear on my laptop” from time to time for a chat on Skype, Google or Facebook. I enjoy these “catch-up conversations” but have limited time for them. I feel that I can devote more time to conversations if they will be available to share with others later, rather than if they are simply one-to-one. This conversation is an experiment with that sharing approach.

Back to the conversation

The original conversation began on Skype. and ended with a question. I posted my reply on Dadamac Connect – Yesterday (July 30th) you asked what I’m working on now – and I posted that link back to the Skype conversation. I’m copying below the reply that I then got on Skype, and I’m putting it in italics. I’ll insert my comments, and indent them. My contact does not have English as his first language. I admire his use of it.

Regarding sharing

Regarding sharing matter I think that in some cases it is not the best way to make a real IMPACT about what I want to talk a bit now. Action is just doing, it could be talking to , it could be building a house etc. but when I say doing it, I mean taking action witch most probably will make a biggest possible IMPACT which is in final – a better living for people with ethics at the core and all the basic needs fulfilled. So please, you can share what I write, but consider the thought, that sometimes you have to take certain actions to do IMPACT, without going too public. But then of course after some actions have been taken, you can open almost every detail.

Thanks for saying I can share, and thanks also for sharing your reservations about sharing.

I agree that there are times when it is not appropriate to share every detail. A lot depends on your audience. It is one thing to share vision with people who are visionaries, and whose practical work is driven by what needs to be done, and what resources are available. It is a different thing to talk to people who are accustomed to “command and control” projects, with detailed plans, set budgets, and pre-defined outcomes etc. It can also be a problem to share “ideas and hopes” with people who assume your “ideas and hopes” match some existing pot of money but in fact the money would need to be found later. Visionaries understand that visions don’t always attract resources.

Personally I think it’s important to share early and to share vision. It can help in many ways.  By sharing vision there is more chance that people with similar vision can cluster together,  and make the best use of their shared resources. These resources may be “material” or “immaterial”. Immaterial resources are things like the people in your network, and your credibility with them, and the ideas and knowledge that you have between you. It can serve to sort ideas out, and learn from each other.

There is a saying that “to travel fast travel alone, but to travel far travel with others”. The only way I know of finding other “travellers” is to connect and communicate.

I appreciate the fact that by connecting with you again I will learn something new. I’ll also have to focus on what I know in a new way (related to your perspective)  which will give me useful insights. If we are lucky some kind of win-win collaboration may result. If not, at least we will have learned something, and will have not invested too much time and effort in the learning.

The Blue Economy

BE (Blue Economy) CASES are all open, over 100 of them.. they are working, each CASE is used in many different places in world. People are trying to apply them where ever they fit best to make sustainable communities, businesses, cities, islands, or just  one house if it is a case, or just a small “Rain garden” which is used for stormy days to control the water floods as a forests does that.

It’s good to know these are practical tested projects, and that they are small scale and large scale. I wonder if this means that you are looking for locations which have specific problems and where one of the CASES would be a possible answer.

I saw and I worked on some BE projects.

It’s also good to know you have practical experience.

Blue Economy is a model of a new economy which is emerging in a world right now. Current Economy system is on crisis, and will always be like it, cause it is all about getting profit, and they are doing it by cutting costs at all costs. People is not important in current system.

We are in agreement that there are problems with the current economic system.

The new BE thinking is different, it is very practical, it is working, it had made over 8 million jobs already. Prof. Pauli Gunter is a “father” of BE. He was to inspire me, and to guide me for a new way, and I think this is a solution. And what he sais, that there is no one solution, and that we have to change our thinking. Taking ethics at the core, taking action inspired by Nature to do impact.

There is plenty of information about BE and Pauli Gunter online, there is information about cases.

This all seems good, and things that I would be in general agreement with, but I’m not sure what you hope I will do as a result of hearing about it.

Taking action

I am offering to start a case….

So when you say “offering to start a case“, do you mean that you are offering to put in your energy to start something new according to these principles?

I’m willing to help people to do things, as long as the helping doesn’t take too much of my own energy, relates to things I’m doing, and genuinely works as a win-win.

… it means, taking a real location, because BE is all about doing it locally with what you have.

I agree with the principle of doing things in practice, and being rooted in a genuine place, and using what we have. I wonder what kind of location you have in mind.

Location has it current state, and as I know now from BE practice, that everything can get better, so we have to get to different kind of thinking, which is inspired by nature, to start think in systems, which is my job for now….

I agree with you that “we have to get to different kind of thinking“. I’m interested in your reference to systems thinking. I was introduced to systems thinking when I was an undergraduate.  Often when I am with people who I feel are “talking sense” they turn out to have some connection with systems thinking.

When you say “ which is my job for now” do you mean it is your paid job (i.e your “day job”) or do you mean that it is the work you are passionate about, where you put your own time and resources? Is it soemthign you are doing while you are in the UK or are you hoping to travel?

but in time when I would implement this ideas into practice of everyday life in particular location, everyone there will start to understand what is BE, and how start implement it everywhere else because it is just way of new thinking.

I image we are in agreement about the need to demonstrate things in practice. This is even more necessary if the things we are doing challenge the usual ways of thinking and doing.

So I was asking about current biggest problems.

When you say “current biggest problems” I’m wondering if you meant problems that I am working to address, or some other problems.

And I saw one thing in Dadamac Connect about the street lights that would be sustainable, not polluting, seeing the stars at night.

Ah – if you read Pam – we want street lights! then you were following up the links I offered you. I’m glad. That post is also useful as a starting point because it is a specific example. It’s always easier to get shared understanding if we have a particular example to point to. It is said that “Anyone can improve on a protoype” and I believe that is true.

Let’s look at why I offered you that example, and what you think of it. Then we’ll have a better understanding of our different perspectives and our possible overlapping interests.

The idea behind the post was that the ways we do things now in ‘developed countries” are not necessarily the best ways. The industrial revolution was a mixed blessing. There have been wonderful advances over the past few hundred years in – but also many undesirable “unexpected consequences”. Now there are better ways to do things, if a project is starting afresh. This idea seems to overlap the messages you are sharing about the Blue Economy.

This could be a case, which I could get grip on, but maybe there is bigger problems, because light, is not the basic need.

I agree. Streets lights are not a priority (although there is an interesting example of one provided by Fantsuam Foundation outside the main compound). Also there is a difference between projects that I’m doing and projects that changemakers like John are doing.

John is doing amazing local projects in Nigeria. I’m addressing related issues about communication and “patterns” especially patterns of change  and the impact of the Internet on how we communicate and collaborate.

I wrote the street lights post back in 2009 to make some general points.  New street lighting was not (and is not) a priority for me in the UK in my street with the light pollution, nor for the people in Ago-Are where I had the original conversations.

Certainly there are many problems which are more pressing. If you check Nikki’s blogs on the Dadamac Foundation website and earlier blogs by Nikki and Frances on the old site you’ll see some of the local problems in Nigeria. One of the most pressing challenges at present is to help John and his team to finish equipping the Computer Based Testing centre they are building at Fantsuam.

What interests me most is what you mean when you say “This could be a case, which I could get grip on“. I don’t know what you mean. Do you mean that you want to learn more about a particular problem so that you can do something useful to help? Would you help from the UK? Do you plan to travel? Are you hoping I can offer you some kind of paid job? Are you part of a Blue Economy team that wants a chance to try out some specific ideas? Do you mean something different that I have not understood?

First we need to take care of basic needs, as a food, water, home, energy… I think you will understand now what I want to say about Doing. We have to really do it in order to make an IMPACT, in other words to make it really happen.

John made some interesting observations about the relationship between different needs when he was in London in 2013. It was in response to a question at the end of Dadamac Day November 2013. There is a video of it – see

By the way John is not the only changemaker we are working with, but he is the one we have been working with for the longest time on a regular basis.

I need something a bit clearer to understand what you mean by “Doing”. When you say “We have to really do it” I wonder – Who is “we’? – and what do you mean by ‘it”.

BE is a win win for sustainable people, no contests, no competing, but helping each other to grow bigger and faster as a systems together as nature does. Most current companies are not sustainable. They are loosing by themselves. We will not compete them. In the end, they will be happy that we have changed the rules, because sustainability is better living for everyone.

I do agree with you about the need for win-win ways of doing things, and for greater collaboration,

I think BE is a first big network which is based not on dogmas, but on the changes as we people are the part of nature and universe, and it’s evolution over time..

I agree with you about evolution over time. I think there are an encouraging number of networks, large and small, which are emerging, which are based on values of collaboration and working in harmony with our home planet, rather than plundering it.

Best way to start I think, would be meeting with you, and discuss the matter and possible projects. I might see a computer not the best way to communicate.  So please freely think all through, and respond me whenever, there is no rules here, no need to rush, unless one is excited and want to rush. 

I agree face-to-face meetings have benefits that are different to online communication. Please see our meetup page for the two locations we use –

Let me know which one would be most convenient for you and we’ll see what can be arranged.